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Customer Confidential: Untold Stories of Earned Growth

The Customer Confidential Podcast unlocks a world of unparalleled customer and employee loyalty insights. Host Rob Markey, a Net Promoter System pioneer, uses his deep expertise and empathetic approach to challenge conventional wisdom, peel back layers of typical advice, and expose the real stories of industry transformation. Take a deep dive into discussions on CX, customer journey, customer insights, Net Promoter Score, and more. Every episode is a master class in loyalty. Guests include CMOs, CXOs, and heroes of customer-centric transformation, along with thought leaders who inspire them. Exploring organizational structures, operating models, goals, and metrics, Rob and his guests from leading companies bring to light practical marketing, product, customer experience, and technology strategies for earning customer-focused growth. This podcast is your source for untold stories of customer and employee loyalty. Challenging, insightful, and instructive—all in one place. Earned growth starts here.

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  2. Ep. 257: John Finley | Stop Chasing Surveys: How to Earn the Next Customer Choice

Ep. 257: John Finley | Stop Chasing Surveys: How to Earn the Next Customer Choice

Oct 30, 2025

Episode 257: How do you earn the next banking customer’s loyalty, one moment at a time? Focus on what customers choose, and why.

According to John Finley, head of marketing, technology, and innovation at BMO, a bank operating across North America, customer loyalty shifts with context. His team takes signals—what customers say—and wires them back into the very next touch. They then test whether the micro-fix actually changes the next behavior. The goal is to earn the next choice—and the corresponding interaction.

To make this happen, BMO runs targeted interventions wherever friction points show up. For example, “Customers who don’t know who their banker is are much more likely to be a detractor,” explains John. To address this, BMO will reintroduce the customer to their banker and then track whether that specific change moves the next response.

It’s a practical and simple playbook: close rapport gaps, personalize the next contact, and measure whether advocacy—not just willingness to recommend alone—drives ongoing loyalty.

Guest: John Finley, Managing Director, Head of Marketing, Technology, & Innovation, BMO

Host: Rob Markey, Partner, Bain & Company

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Time-Stamped Topics

  • [00:03:00] Feeding survey input back into the next interaction
  • [00:03:00] Use case on reintroducing the banker to close detractor risk
  • [00:04:00] Causation vs. correlation: designing tests that read the next response
  • [00:05:00] Post-acquisition noise: how integration affects signals
  • [00:06:00] A multi-bank reality of how loyalty shifts according to the situation
  • [00:07:00] Loyalty (the emotional) compared to retention (the behavioral)
  • [00:09:00] Advocacy and “willing to recommend”; why formal referrals fall short
  • [00:10:00] Don’t chase more surveys; mine behavioral data to reap value

Notable Quotes

  • [05:00] “Customers who don't know who their banker is are much more likely to be a detractor.”
  • [06:00] “We're very much in test mode. … We're going to be able to measure how the interaction [customers] had influences the next time they provide us feedback.”
  • [08:00] “If somebody’s willing to recommend, that's one thing. But if somebody's advocating strongly, it's that next step of loyalty.”